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Friday, May 20, 2011

TO MY DEAR FRIENDS OF AGUDATH ISRAEL OF AMERICA WHT WE NEED IS TEARS AND COMPASSION NOT SOME COMPLICATED FANCY TALK THAT SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AND IS AGAINST THE REAL WISHES OF OUR GEDOLEI YISROEAL

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/setting-the-record-straight-on-agudath-israel-of-america-and-child-sexual-abuse-678.html
RESPONSE BY DR ASHER LIPPNER AND MRS BRACHA GOETZ

                                                      
לֹא תַעֲמֹד עַל-דַּם רֵעֶךָ

DR ASHER LIPPNER
For the lamdanim (talmudic scholars) among us, it appears we have a machlokes (scholarly debate) about the ruling of Rav Elyashiv that says one must report child abuse directly to the police, and how to interpret it.


 HAGOEN RAV ELIYASHIV  says that it means to go to the police.



RABBI GOTTESMAN  of the Agudath Israel says it means to go to the rabbis.,

My vote is that we should allow the "Machria" (deciding vote) to be Mrs. Bracha Goetz.  She is an expert in the fifth Chelek (volume) of Shulchan Aruch....."Seychel Hayashar"....COMMON SENSE.   Which of course, as they say is not so common.   Especially among rabbis. 

Rebbetzin Bracha says what every Jewish mother and every Jewish mother knows deep in their heart:  That you should never listen to rabbis when it comes to your child's safety.  They are not trained in these matters.  They have conflicts of interest:  the molester often has connections or davens in their shul, and they feel responsible to protect the community's image, they are also afraid like the Gedolim, who have admitted publicly that their yeshivas could be sued.  They can't even utter the words sexual abuse!  "Dvarim Megunim" says Rabbi G.  (disgusting things).  Too disgusting to tolerate naming it, but not too disgusting to actually stop from happening?.

I am not saying they don't care about your child's welfare.   I am saying that they care about other things too.  But Jewish parents put their children first.  So please report it if they are hurt.  The child you save may be your own.  As Shmarya points out, the Jewish Star missed the story here completely.  BUT, I think its a good thing.  The more people who don't get confused by Rabbi Gottesman's obfuscating and confusing the halacha, and take out the point, like Rabbi Flink did, that "the Torah says call the cops" the better.

Rabbi Gottesman brings proof that you have to ask a rabbi first from the fact that Rav Elyashiv would not answer him although he asked about 14 times what constitutes "reasonable suspicion". 

I think that he didn't answer because it was what we used to call in yeshiva a "Klutz Kasha", a stupid question. 

Even Rabbi Feivel Cohen, who was the named recipient of the responsum from Rav Elyashiv told my friend that "you should use your G-d given brain to know when it is reasonable to suspect."

It is not unlike Supreme Court Justice Morgenthau who said when ruling on obscenities, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

The Agudah rabbis do not WANT to see child molestation.  Rabbi Yisroel Reisman came to court for the sentencing to show support to convicted molester Yonah Weinberg because Weinberg's father davens in his shul.  For those who don't recall that was the case in which the judge lambasted the Orthodox community and threw the book at Weinberg because he had never seen a community show so much more support to the perpetrator than the victims.  He also told me that although he didn't tell the victims of Kranczer not to go to the police (although there were witnesses who disagree with this statement) he DID tell them not to give the police certain information such as the identity of one of the victims who in the end proved to be critical to the police investigation. 

Rabbi Gottesman told Elliot Pasik that he looked into it as part of his position in Agudah and Torah  Umesorah and it is true that Rabbi Moshe Eiseman, the "retired "mashgiach of Ner Yisroel, is a molester.  Nevertheless, Eiseman sits together till this day with In their writings  the Agudah and Torah Umesorah Yeshiva owners (Rabbis Feinstien, Kotler, Kaminetsky, Perlow, Salamon, et. al.) on the Vaad L'hatzalas Nidchei Yisroel which was glorified in Mishpacha magazine not long ago for their good works.

Now, if it is true, then that would mean that no matter how you define "Raglayim Ladavar" it would have to be reported to the authorities.  Has anyone from the Agudah fulfilled this psak from Rav Elyashiv?  This proves beyond the shadow of the doubt for any who have a "G-d given brain" in their head, that the Agudah rabbis are still trying to cover up for all the molesters and perhaps more importantly for all the cases they have covered up for over the years. 

They should learn from the Catholic Church and from Ohel, that in the end, the truth always comes out. 


As Shmarya points out, the Jewish Star missed the story here completely.  BUT, I think its a good thing.  The more people who don't get confused by Rabbi Gottesman's obfuscating and confusing the halacha, and take out the point, like Rabbi Flink did, that "the Torah says call the cops" the better.

Rabbi Gottesman brings proof that you have to ask a rabbi first from the fact that Rav Elyashiv would not answer him although he asked about 14 times what constitutes "reasonable suspicion". 

I think that he didn't answer because it was what we used to call in yeshiva a "Klutz Kasha", a stupid question. 

Even Rabbi Feivel Cohen, who was the named recipient of the responsum from Rav Elyashiv told my friend that "you should use your G-d given brain to know when it is reasonable to suspect."

It is not unlike Supreme Court Justice Morgenthau who said when ruling on obscenities, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

The Agudah rabbis do not WANT to see child molestation.  Rabbi Yisroel Reisman came to court for the sentencing to show support to convicted molester Yonah Weinberg because Weinberg's father davens in his shul.  For those who don't recall that was the case in which the judge lambasted the Orthodox community and threw the book at Weinberg because he had never seen a community show so much more support to the perpetrator than the victims.  He also told me that although he didn't tell the victims of Kranczer not to go to the police (although there were witnesses who disagree with this statement) he DID tell them not to give the police certain information such as the identity of one of the victims who in the end proved to be critical to the police investigation. 

Rabbi Gottesman told Elliot Pasik that he looked into it as part of his position in Agudah and Torah  Umesorah and it is true that Rabbi Moshe Eiseman, the "retired "mashgiach of Ner Yisroel, is a molester.  Nevertheless, Eiseman sits together till this day with In their writings  the Agudah and Torah Umesorah  Kotler, Kaminetsky, Perlow, Salamon, et. al.) on the Vaad L'hatzalas Nidchei Yisroel which was glorified in Mishpacha magazine not long ago for their good works.

Now, if it is true, then that would mean that no matter how you define "Raglayim Ladavar" it would have to be reported to the authorities.  Has anyone from the Agudah fulfilled this psak from Rav Elyashiv?  This proves beyond the shadow of the doubt for any who have a "G-d given brain" in their head, that the Agudah rabbis are still trying to cover up for all the molesters and perhaps more importantly for all the cases they have covered up for over the years. 

They should learn from the Catholic Church and from Ohel, that in the end, the truth always comes out. 












http://www.thejewishpress.com/pageroute.do/48367



Shining Light On Sexual Abuse
When Rabbi Yisroel Salanter was asked about developing a sense of gratitude as a means of deepening one's relationship with Hashem, he responded very interestingly, that the highest form of ingratitude to Hashem is not taking proper care of the body He gave us.  We show gratitude to Hashem for our blessings when we strive to more fully protect our children's vulnerable bodies.  And we apply our high regard for tznius appropriately when we remember that their bodies are the garments for our children's innocent souls.
Our beautiful and exemplary regard for tznius gets misplaced when it leads us to be remiss in calmly and clearly discussing personal body safety prevention topics with our children, at home and in our schools.  It also becomes deleterious when it causes us to shy away from responsibly addressing dangerous violations in our midst.  When sexual misconduct goes unchecked, it turns our most insular tznius communities into the best breeding grounds.
What can parents do to help their children become less likely targets of a sexual predator?  It is a parents' responsibility to teach his or her children how to be safe.  Annual brief pre-planned personal safety discussions with our children are ideal.  Being open, honest and cheerful during these discussions is essential.  We don't need to convey fear to our children or discuss this topic too frequently.  We just need to calmly speak with them, from preschool age on up, about the safety of their bodies (nobody should touch them in the private areas that are covered by bathing suits; nobody includes people they may know well like older brothers, cousins, neighbors; the importance of not keeping secrets about touching, etc.). 
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As our children get older, the short annual discussion on this topic should have age-appropriate information added.  Asking if they have any questions at the end is also very important.  Often, children need time to absorb the information, so we can let them know that if at any time they would like to ask us anything about this or tell us something, we welcome that.  Clearly and calmly expressed knowledge truly provides our children

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